E2 Elk Master Muc Simons talks Elk Hunting and Calling to Improve YOUR odds of Success!

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Welcome, to pursue the hunt live where we aim to connect you with stories, experiences and experts in the industry to improve your odds in the field. Pursue, the hunt was founded on bringing a well rounded approach to hunting from offseason prep to packing up your trophy. We pursue the whole hunt. Right are here on another episode of pursue the Hunt Live and we are super excited today to introduce a special guest to you Muc Simon’s and I’m your host Mike Friesen and we are super excited to be talking everything to do with elk. We’re going to be talking pre Rut. Post rut mid Rut, Elk calling methods, and it just going to be a super exciting episode. So welcome here. thanks for Hey having me. Excited to be here. Yes, so let’s go. Let’s talk about you a little bit just kind of your background hunting, wise kind of your , just introduce yourself to the audience a bit. While my hunting first of all I’m from southern Saskatchewan and you when it comes to the Elk you Don’t think that elk is synonymous with , it really isn’t. But that’s how it got started for me back way back in , was working in the oil patch. I. Think I was nineteen at the time. And it got really slow like what it is right now, unfortunately in the . I started looking for alternative things to to do and. In a roundabout way I went to the Western producer looking for A. Truck driving jobs for farmers just to get me by until I get back into oil patch and I found. I found IT application for Yukon Guide school, and a that’s how it really started for me. I did that was way back in nineteen ninety. I remember I just packed up whatever I had at the time jumped on a plane and flew to whitehorse and the weird thing that is being a prairie guy I mean I hunted with my father and friends and stuff like that for white tail and birds primarily what we have in southern but. I never rode a horse in my entire life before I got to. Yukon. I. Did we are I? Two weeks was all learning how to? Cave animals, so they had domestic goats at the end butcher that we worked on the caves and learn that and we also took a ferrying schools while which is kind of interesting. And because I didn’t never wrote horse before I soaked up all the information and. And then the main part of the actual guide school was we loaded up. The horses drone to a certain point, and then we. We wrote them for I. Think was sixteen or Nineteen as to the Arctic Circle for that affair this Yukon The and that’s how that’s how it started, and and the funny thing for me is I. Remember before long became a a guide. I actually applied for this particular outfit they had a they had a advertisement for guides and ramblers and stuff, and I run up. resume incentive to them, and never even got a reply back so I I knew that they weren’t roy interest in me and the weird twist to this whole thing for me was when I got completed the guide school. Out Fair had spots for two guides, and there’s five of us on the guide school and The two guys that got the the sheep guide were a couple of Alberta Cowboys, and they actually the shooter and determined long before the guide school was done that those guys were going to get the job. The and he told me he told me after that. It’s not that I didn’t do good. He just didn’t think I was going to cut it. Being that I had basically no gear for the mountains I’ve never heard horses before All All kinds of even he thought is going to wash out which didn’t so at the end of it. He made the mistake of telling those guys that they were going to get. There were going to get the jobs, so he recommended me to good friend, which I spent a good part of fifteen years of working for that outfitter after that, and ironically that was the guy that was the outfit that I sent the resume at him so. That’s that’s pretty cool. So what kind of what kind of species did you guide for? Well when I first started I thought truly thought, I was going to be a wrangler for the first little while, and just kind of learned the way of the Guide and I think that was the idea. I wrote into camp with two nights and while you go to a mean camp, and then they. The kind of send you to all different parts of their hunting concession, and in this particular spy was actually one of the most sought after Grizzly Lake and it was really picture s beautiful place I went there with two knives, and there is a there was a cook and Wrangler and stuff like that and.

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Or sorry I was going to be wrangler. Like a camp got cuts, wooden stuff and one of the guys had a fight with the outfitter eight before. It’s time to Paco and. My old note theater. He didn’t take any of that. He just he’d fiery on the spot so scheduling. So so that guy got sent to the highway and. I got told that I was GONNA take one one hundred my first trip. And of course. The the the. It’s just a clarity of errors for me. At first, that’s cylinder. Remember I remember the night we flew into capping like. I’m like I’m fully expecting to be wrangler and just I just spent a whole month. You know shoeing horses and stuff, so it’s pretty confident than it could ride horses, but one thing I didn’t know was that I thought this was a stolen sheet cap, which it was, but the also had a bunch of other species at the sort of were synonymous floor in northern BC, and that was Elkin Moose and report course. I was familiar with Moose Venus catching, but one thing I wasn’t familiar with was L. and I remember sitting at the kitchen table and the feeder had this big long wooden table that he kinda of. Hunters stuff all gathered around there. And then he split them up into camps there and I remember seeing there for supper and. There was some experienced guides that have been there forever were in the in the hallway and they’re whistling on reads, and I didn’t know what that meant I remember looking at the other guy that I got that came in with me and I’m like. What is that noise and they’re like. Don’t you know that that’s an call and I was like no I even what an L. Call was, and so so unfortunately for that hunter, he was going to get me and I’ve never even I never even knew what an L. looked like or sounded like so it was just it was I thought it was going to be a horrific experience, but it was August fifteenth I still remember nine hundred ninety and. It opened on right around that time and I remember it. I didn’t have to call the bull in because I remember they were still there were just out of were just into hard horn, and they’re fat and they weren’t writing or anything like that. This won’t came out and must have been twenty five degrees. It was a beautiful day and that hunter had lots of patients for me with knee, and a bowl bedded on the edge of a kind of a big go gorge, and we just waited till he stood up. Hundred shot him sooner new calling at all. Thank goodness. Yeah, but but that that put me on my path of my love affair with L.. That’s now. Going on thirty years of calling elk and stuff like that, but the other still was that. The other species than I did guided for was Rocky Mountain Goat. Mountain goat. I dabbled a little bit in stolen sheep Moose and black bear. Okay So what was it about that hunt? Then that made you fall in love with elk, like like what was so awesome about? Well just hearing. Like so that that trip was in August, and so we had to wait another think it was a twelve, the aunt, so I had to wait another twelve days before one hundred Kamien. Then the awkward starting to whistle at that point and once you start to hear whistle, and you see how the act in the in the Rut is. Truly an addiction and that’s what happened with me. And another thing that happened to me was just. Turn out to be some of the best thing that’s ever happened to me. Was I met another catch and boy that lived about an hour and a half from where I’m from, I never knew before, but. All the people in camps at all. You GotTa meet. Lawn you’ve gotta be Lonnie. He looks just like you and your hazard from the same area, so we met one day we both three and camp with the horses, and we met, and we instantly hit it off, and and if it wasn’t for him I, probably wouldn’t have fall in love with L. because he really is the sort of my mentor. And Tennis Day were best friends. He’s the. Godfather to my to my son There’s a lot of things that that. The that that. Moment in time had brought to me leader on in my life and meaning, and really was the guy that taught me to call and. I attribute back to him all the time. Anytime I talked about elk I talk about Lonnie and if it wasn’t for him, taking me under his wing and teaching me to call I don’t know if I would add this love. Affair took away further near Mike. I went to the World Championships I. I did lots of things with that, he didn’t do, but. That’s that’s how I got started for me. So like okay, so this world championships out about. Well. I’m sure we’ll get into it when we’re talking about calling and stuff like that, but. What what had happened was just going to skip any kind of to the end of where I was guiding at, and we could fill in the blanks as we go. About two thousand four couple years yet, two, thousand, four, two, thousand, five, a few years after nine eleven I’ve Kinda assorted changed like at that time I had a young daughter I was.

00:10:13 – 00:15:07

Married and I would always leave my job. At the beginning August and I wouldn’t come home till October and it was just a after doing it for damn near fifteen years. It was really. Stressful on the family and missing my kid and stuff like that. While I started going into filming outdoor hunts for people like they, they would call me up. They would hire me to film. Their hunts and stuff like that so I travel specially one guy in particular. That was a big elk hunter in him and I hit it off. He loved the way called Elk, and so he flew me all over north. America and. what had happened is is. He He. Sort of lost you there for sack. He took me on a lot of. Where I would I would film at four, but also call so. how the world elk championships. Was I was on a hunt with him where he like, he was almost like custom guiding, but not really like like I was there to film the hunt, but yet he always had need bring. My L. Calls and stuff like that and. And, so it wasn’t wasn’t. There is the guide, but was there sort of as a backup caller because Wayne always had so much. Faith in me, so I was running the camera, and I always had the cavs see before ever met Wayne and early in the years, and so I always carried an old eight millimeter camcorders with me anyways I was on my. And so he knew that I know the position to be in when I was calling and stuff like that, because that was important like he I remember him telling me once that he hired. films or the photographers from ESPN and they weren’t hunters. They were good sports video roff videographers. They weren’t. They didn’t know where to be so whereas ought to combine, both that’s right, so so that’s why we hit it off, so he? He flew me all over North America on just like hundreds of hunts, and and so this particular hunt was he booked hunt in Wyoming with Ron dooby wilderness adventures, and I don’t know if no one Ron Dooby Ron do is like he’s Kinda like a hero to me in the sense that I knew was long before ever met him. He’s a big outfitter that used to be in Wyoming more for. bighorn sheep, but he also had yellowstone Elkin. He was one of the only outfitters that had a permit to ride through Yellowstone Park to get to his hunting concessions. So where he’s drying those big yellowstone elk out of his out of his out of the park so I I run this hunt with with Wayne and and and and Ron. Dooby and I remember the very like there’s to his Wayne in the and the Sun. There wasn’t much of a story that hunt we’re in a burn, and there’s a big six six and we basically just head and tell them he Walked Walked by got him, but then then the weather turned really warm, and I wasn’t the guide like I was just strictly there to film it and so, but I did have my calls with me, and but see. Ron Is such a big like he’s done numerous videos and stuff like that so I was stepping on toes at all, so I I stayed at the back, and Rode my horse, and never really opened my mouth. The whole time and the weather turned super warm, and the ELK stop bugling and Ron wasn’t an elk guide like He. He knew what a good six point baller! Something looked like, but he he wasn’t a caller. He only he’d only was the guide on this hunt. Film we weren’t just doing a T. we’re doing a video, but we’re also doing a a made like a DVD were. It’s called from the field tuna freezer, and so we were doing were filming Wayne’s Hind and then we’re teaching how to butcher L. in the field. So so Wayne. Ron was only the reason he is a guide. There is because it was his camp and stuff like that, so he wasn’t really he. He would admit he’s not an El caller, but so his tactics or the way he called a I. Don’t think was. That great for that time of year especially when it was warm, but I wasn’t about to say anything, and and and how I got to the world championships. Was I was at the back? We’re on day six of the seventy alcon and Wayne. Ron Got off his horse for some reason and tied it up. I don’t know and Wayne just said to Ron Hey. Do you think market call and? And Wayne says yeah. Of course like no problem. And I was on top of my horse, and I swung wide bugle around, and put my reading, my mouth, at I called, and before I, even have my call on Bang I, had a , we kind of scrabbled in tied the horse up and we got in there and.

00:15:08 – 00:20:06

and. We’ll kind of get into the way. I call them the way I. It’s stuff lead yet. We got this big. It was eight by seven. Bowl is beautiful huge. Guide for but we did the video and stuff in that night when we wrote back to camp. Wayne took me. A Ron took side by because I was a guide I was helping them unsaddled horses and stuff like that just didn’t feel like. I should be lazy so I was helping. Put Rig away and sandals away and stuff like that and. Ron Pulled me aside. He says hey I’ve never seen somebody call elk like that before a you really should consider coming to the workout world elk calling Championships. He goes I’m the MC of it and he goes. I guarantee you do good. He goes. Nobody from Canada goes at that time so right, so I told talked to Wayne. The guy was hunting with and talk to Ron and I decided to go that year, and I went down there and I think I got. Next to a hundred percent on my cal’s like use him oh three. Okay I think what I got scored. I got scored virtually one hundred percent of my cal calls by my bowl calls. I got I got scored down and. I think you have to be in the top five to make the finals and I think I was around that six. I think I remember calculating and I was around the six I just missed it. But I that that helped me when I do all my president, presentations and seminars, because I, it’s a valuable lesson to to people about calling for people calling for for actual elk right because at the time I was using as using this little to right here. This is the one I had since nineteen ninety, but. The pros were using our the big tubes like this and I. I didn’t know that at the time, and so I went into that skinny tube, and just the volume doesn’t sound the same when you’re in an auditorium, and so I got score down on my my bowl calls because of that, but it was still an exciting and you know I. Never took up on it because at the time I was pretty busy with work, but I was the only Canadian at the time, and will primos approach offered me A. Job At for for Canada, and his only stipulation was that it had to be proficient in two calls, and of course I was I was in the ball and the cal call, so he wrote me up a really nice invitation to join their team, but I had to pass on it. Because at that time, my daughter was really young and I I didn’t WanNa be on the road That, That, much sometimes I wish I could have been in that the starting series, but I I. Don’t regret it for a minute, but anyways that’s that’s how the world championships I never went back, but I wanted to go back at one time just to to see now like after seeing that big tube had I made the next day. The Sunday I would’ve found one of those big tubes. Yup because they really do, I mean if you if you’ve ever heard somebody use. One of those big bugles do their in their incredible. I have a big tube. Myself as well I’m not super proficient in it, but I’ve called in a few elk in my day. Okay so before we get into. What like talking out here and. I do need to ask. How did you get the nickname muck? Well I got it when I was a little kid and I’m I’m almost fifty now. I’ll be fifty next year. So the best I can recall is if if if I was clean for five minutes that that was that was an under Stephen and I always think. puddle. It’d be at slide they I always got the term quick plane in the mock and that’s how I got it. Does also yeah. I mean the fact that it’s still stuck are still pretty dirty. You stay pretty clean. No I’m dirty. I I just got out a beer cap yesterday and my coveralls. Who just just covered? How was the bear trip? Lots of bears just nothing big yet as an started, and so the I’ve got to really cranky on on camera that are nocturnal, so but the one night we had eleven bear show up. So, it was pretty impressive. Wow, yeah, so did you some good footage of that tune to yeah, I did well. Here’s the thing like when you see so many you Kinda just a you forget to turn the camera on so. For the first five of her, so I did with the second five I did and we did have one really what I would consider. A shooter bore come in right at last night I, did video but to the video was too dark. We ensure that we he I did get some video of so that I could. Sort of feel judge men. It was just too dark. Good things come to those who wait, so you know, I think you’ll have some pretty good success.

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Hopefully you can get a crack at one of those in the daytime well. I’m not seeing some pictures of him and they’re pretty fat. I’m not a bear expert by no means but A. Good friend of mine is and I showed him. The one pitcher e figures. It’s a five hundred and ten pound bear. Why seeing that picture, I’ve never seen a bear that fat in screen me neither, but you never know I have never. He like just transfer the teleported from fall to spring with hibernating. He’s so fat that the his when you look at his for it separating because of the fact, that is crazy. Yeah, that’s what I noticed on the belly. Off that rubbed I’m like no. That looks like it’s actually separating because of how fatty as well. I just recently while my nephew just recently built a what we call a beaver basket like I have a beaver box have a couple of beavers in them, and then I have my main bureau. What my green and sweets and stuff in, and we wondered if we had a big bear because it kept peeling the top of our our forty five gallon drum kept peeling the top off like a sardine can so when we saw these pictures were like Oh. Yeah, we got a cracker. Built a what we call a beaver basket with Scott about inch inch, and a half holes in it, so they can take little bits out of it because I. I live three almost four hours away from where our cameras and I can’t be there every day to beat it, so I wanted for morale and so i. put this beaver basket there just before I sat that night so around the clock in the evening I got the stand at dark at nine thirty, and our camera took the last pitcher of the beaver box at ten thirty, and then it was gone. He broke the chain. Oh so he took the beaver. Vox took the beaver box in two brand new beavers. I spent. Three five. I spent the next day two hours walking around the whole woods, like a probably a three hundred yard circumference around our, and it’s gone, and you can’t even see the skin marks like he. He picked it off. Took it away. Unbelievable that’s crazy well, and it’s the beaver box. itself is probably thirty pounds because it’s it’s heavy steel and put to be resume. There are probably twenty fifteen to twenty pounds each, so that’s a good sixty five pound thing that they just picked, treat up and walked away with and both the chain. Yeah I’ll hopefully you get those bears? Actually camera my ever did. My nephew’s nicknamed him warping. That’s his. Hoping my my nephew gets that there. That is a worthy name Yup And as a worthy name that is awesome. Okay so. A couple of things I wanted to talk about starting so for our listeners to because we try to. Do a lot of education on the show and try to improve. People’s odds you know in terms of what we have so. For beginners and intermediate hunters right and so. Elk Behaviour, so for me personally. Elk are kind of like The drama Queens of. The deer family like. They are so picky. I’ve found for me when I’ve hunted elk. So what are some of the things? Let’s let’s talk pre Rut. Let’s talk preseason. Habitat behaviour. where. Where would you most likely find them? Are they still in Bachelor groups? You. Break it down a bit. Yeah like when I do mice presentations, and and that’s exactly the audience that I do my presentations for is the the first time hunter or or somebody. That’s navy been unsuccessful that I can maybe give them attempt to do it. I’ve done I. was just going through my stuff I’ve been doing elk seminars and presentations for twenty years and. And so and the message is the same pretty much every time that I do this, but The prerequisite is like I. Break it down into three, the pre Rut the full Rut and the post right. and. The pre. Rut is what I would consider the hardest time to haunted L., because it’s generally the prerequisites, generally the middle of August to the end of August. The beginning of September and the Bulls aren’t in groups anymore. They’re the are separate from each other, and so you might hear the odd one whistle, but rarely will you get them? Replied to you, and of course then you run into the temperature and they if they do Whistle Whistle that the whistle. They only whistle for like the first few minutes of the, and then right at the end of dark, and so it’s really really hard, and the big one is still fully on the trees in the pre Rut and it’s really really hard to find even if you know that they’re there.

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It’s really hard, so the pre rut You got lots working against you. They’re really not calling. The cows certainly are not calling The weather could be you know plus thirty and you got foliage on the trees, so the pre Rut in my opinion is tough is, that is super hard to to try to pattern l.. If you’re trying to look look for him at that point, just like the post where I usually find him there as by water sources, because they want to wallow in stay cool during the day. Okay. Okay Yeah That’s a really good, really good tip I mean. Kind of just going along that. Like a lot of the elk hunting, specifically around our area, there’s a lot of agricultural. Field and things like that, so it’s not necessarily in the mountains like immediately enforcing John Area and. That’s that’s definitely one thing I’ve noticed ’cause. I’ve tried to hide you know September first. Elk opens you try to get out there. But you’re hearing crickets. You can’t see in the trees worth a darn like. You can’t see through the leave canvas. But one thing. I’ve noticed too so. In our specific area. It’s super heavily pressured. At so and also two. We have an Antler this season. And so September fifteenth opens up and you could shoot three point bowls. And out and atlas and so. We don’t get a lot of big bold so the one behind me. I actually got close to our area here, but as I’ve noticed throughout the years I. Don’t hear a lot of calling even the right now. Does that have to do with the fact that there’s not a lot of mature bowls like they don’t get to that maturity, or is it because they’re so heavily pressured? They shut up and don’t talk. Like we term as a guide elk Guidance is called educating your bulls, and and it it really is a legitimate thing, and what that means is because and you guys have the same sort of issue that we have here in Saskatchewan. Ours anything above a sort of a two point could be harvested, and so that means from the time those bulls are one and a half years old or years old. They’re being hunted for. Their for their. Whereas whereas where wife, that’s right for their life, so so basically, what happens is every Tom Dick and Harry is whistling to these elk, and and so they’re hearing calling from the time they’re little and I don’t mean calling from a wild bowl. They know what a while will is, and then from from from humans and so. Goes bowls unless they’re really hard running they some of them. They call it a silent bugle where they’re not even really bugling much anymore. They’ll sort sort of do one or two whistles, and then they just they stop and. That’s because they’re educated. They’ve had run INS with okay humans. So one of the things I see in social media that sort of drives me nuts as an elk guide well, I like seeing the videos of people calling in bowls and stuff like that I mean. It is cooled to whistle woman album come in. One of the first things that comes to mind is if you’re not hunting that. Why are you calling it? Because now if you win wins you or sees you? He’s going associate that with. With danger and and so I. You know I understand why people do that, but the they’re. They’re completely educating those bulls. So. They’re actually doing themselves a disservice. Hundred percent by by not hunting them while they’re calling them. Yeah, that’s right like if if they just left them alone didn’t whistle to them and I think the here’s the thing bull calling to elk. If. You’re good at or even if you’re not good at it, it’s fun if you get a reply and so. That’s why people do that because they they love here in a bowl, whistle, and replying to them, but it’s just it’s the same with Mussa and Moose. You can educate them to as well. Think Mercer different creature when it comes to the Rut-, but You can educate a as well. Yeah? Yeah, for sure that’s that’s actually a really good point and. I think our listeners will appreciate that advice because. You know, I’ve been guilty of that time or two as well. If I’m going out to check trail cams and getting close to hunting season. You know little little bugles see what’s out there but I mean over time to as as I become more experienced just. You know I try to get in and out as undetectable as possible unless actually hunting. I’m still trying to be undetectable, but I’m not trying to bring game to me in that. In that sense so okay so now we’ll kind of transition into the ruts.

00:30:02 – 00:35:03

I got one more one more point on that ok. Yup for sure it’s it’s it’s it’s I. Think it’s okay, if see your. Area and you and the reply. That’s not really what I’m getting at I’m talking I’m talking the guys that bring them right to him to wear you know they can see them, or they could smell them. That’s the . whistle to a bull. He doesn’t know that you’re a human. That’s not that’s not what I’m getting at. I’m talking to you know the the social media guys that are calling bull stay out of the trees into a farmer’s field and the and the L. And turns around and takes off. That’s the kind of education of talk about I mean just calling to a another spirit doesn’t know that you’re a human unless he smells her sees you. Know, and that’s and that’s fair enough and. So all we’ll we’ll. We’ll get rut stories in a minute, but so let’s let’s transition into Rutta bit so now. The Bulls are starting to hurt up the cows. Like so the satellite bowls. There’s herd bulls, so let let’s talk about some behavioural characteristics about the Rut. Will the mid Rut I mean the right is what I what I call TV Elk. That’s when I knew my presentations I speak about TV Elk. That’s where you see the National Geographic. See big bulls, fighting at locking horns and stuff like that high knoll that bulls do that in a wild all the time, but rarely do us as hunters experienced that we just don’t and. Especially, if you’re hunting, farmland, l., or and you don’t have the mountains where you could see him far long before that you when you hear, you could see them far away here. There got to be almost on top of them to see them, so we rarely get to see that, but in the Rut it’s it’s the easiest time to hunt because the bulls stop eating, they’re not Sleeping Sleeping and all the care about is breeding all they. That’s their whole purpose. At that time of the year is to is to breed with the cows, and they want to breed as Many cows as possible, so they’re. They’re continually busy going from count a call shall, but they’re also the most vocal at that point, and they are most receptive so what I refer to bull calling. As. We can get into the techniques calling in a bit, but what I say for. What I’m teaching my seminars and trying to teach people bugle calling calling to be strictly locator call and because I don’t use it as a dominant call or to bring bulls in I’ve I. Used to keep track of all the Bulls that guided for and I’m well over two hundred, but I think I can count on my hand how many times I had them come into the bull Call where there are you know screaming and raking trees of stuff like that so I primarily use it as a locator. Because in the Rut, the ball, the Bulls will call back to another goal because of because of the fact that he knows he’s there to steal in his cows potentially right so I call that as the bull locator in the right and they. They’re also super receptive to the cow bleet call because now. You can get in amongst them, and you can bring them to you, or he thinks that maybe it’s a cow in estrus or if you’re really good at calling you can, you can , that really drives them crazy. Yeah! We’ll talk about that when we get into into calling so. So Habitat Wise, are we still looking around water holes and things like that are relooking where there’s feed, or we just trying to locate the cows, because if there’s cows than we know, there’s going to be bowls, because it’s the right. Yeah in the rat. If you can locate the cows, you’re gonNA find. The bulls at a lot like a white tail in in November here in Saskatoon if you find two or three. Does you know that there’s Going Going to be a white tail bucket area somewhere and the same thing is with the with the L. So if you can locate the cows and the cows, yes, they go into estrus and acting little differently, but their life doesn’t really change through this whole process like their social animals. They want to be together unlike bulls were there together with bachelor groups before and after, but they’re very loners in in in the right spot, cows, they stick together so. If, you can find the cows look for. Feed source of some kind. If you’re in the mountains, you look for A. A metal that has good feed. Good north facing good north, facing slopes stuff like that, and if you’re a prairie, l., you use one look for good feed and good bedding area. That’s the key. Okay so when you’re hunting. Are you only going after the heard bowl, or are you also hunting? The satellite bowls well.

00:35:05 – 00:40:07

When you’re when I’m with a client, obviously trying to get them the best trophy or mature bull, that I can get them. We WanNA GET Get the the herd bull but sometimes the these satellite bulls are as big and usually easier to call in because when you’re calling to herd bull. He instantly wants to gather his cows and move away From From your call, and whereas our satellite bowl would be the type that he’s on the perimeter, and you call, and he comes to you because he just he wants that that take on the herd bull just as much as you do so quite often the hurdles. My experience with herd bulls has been generally the four by fours in the five I five I mean you’ll get six five five or a small six point, but usually when you get a big mature six by six, he’ll start his own Harem and you’ll get those smaller bulls around so like when I was guiding in BC ., they had that six point rule where you had to have six points in one side, and so you are always trying to push the . you know and when I say. Get. Yeah, we’re still hunting. But this guy behind me. Interesting story about him is so we were we were like third just into the third week of September, so we hitting the rot pretty pretty heavy like we’re. We’re bugling with probably four bulls in the valley. And but nothing was really moving. It was pretty warm and they weren’t. They weren’t really moving around, but they were just locating. They just talk back and forth. And so was getting about ten thirty in the morning. and. I was with a buddy. He had permission to hunt on. This land is like yeah. Come with me, ’cause I’m hunting with a Trad Bos so. We had an agreement that if he couldn’t get a shot with the trod bow in a big bowl came in that I could take him with the rightful, so it’s like eight. That’s cool. I JUST WANNA. Come along and so. We are as about ten thirty in the morning. We let out like a parting bugle that we’re GONNA. Go back for lunch to the camp. If this guy. I thought it was actually another hunter, because it was so rasping like it was so angry, sounding bad. Sounds cool, but I don’t know if it’s an elk or not like I didn’t have much experience elk hunting. And my buddies like Oh, no, that is a. that’s a mad. That’s a mad bowl and all sudden we could hear down in the valley below us. He was crashing and running at us. And we were like Oh man. We gotta get down into the valley, so we can kind of meet up with them. So, we just slid down this mud shale slide the bottom we got to the bottom. He came up to fifteen yards and he was just up the hill. and. Was No shot for the bow because he was kind of he was quartering too much towards us to to get a good shot with a trad bow to break the brisket. So my buddies all get ready. And so all I did was I. I clicked the safety because like he was just looking at us. Like okay, something’s wrong here. And the wind swirled and he took off. My Buddy just blew into his buick. He just he didn’t even try to be just blew into it. That things stopped dead at forty yards. Hammer them, and it was just it was it all happened so fast. And I’ll never forget it. He was Snot, not the mouth like ready to fight, and it was interesting because when we keep them out. We found an old bullet. In his neck. That’s crazy and. His hide was so thick though like I don’t like. It was probably about this much into the meat through the hide. It was healed up around it like it obviously didn’t penetrate very much, but. He was an older bull for sure like we kind of figured, he was probably a heard bullet one time and then got kicked out. Because he was a bit older, but From then on. It’s elk fever like I cannot wait to get out. And Hunt Elk. What about like what’s what’s what’s one? Rut story that comes to mind. have so many but. One thing I’ll say before we get into a story as I’ve called elk now in subscribe British Columbia. Montana Wyoming, Arizona, and I one thing I will say is. Elk! React the same in every location that I’ve ever called Elkin. I’ve never done the Roosevelt Elk, but I’m assuming the the the the react exact same just this last year. Forty five minutes from Johnny would not believe the some of the biggest elkins scratch here and a buddy of mine God drawn, and he wanted me to come out and call for them an idea.

00:40:07 – 00:45:03

It was absolutely incredible at brought me back to the days of hike in the mountains of BC, because Elk nearly react the same wherever they are so when it comes to the technique for calling I. Guess what I’m what I’m talking about. But I got so many stories, but Probably one of the best stories. I have a both. A whistling goal would have to be there is there’s this fella from? Pennsylvania, when I was guiding I remember. One one of the things I just love doing was I love taking the little guy the guy that had to save up for fifteen twenty years to go on a trip because I mean. Let’s face it when we went on out. In L. Fits. We got. People knew that it was just. It was nothing for them to pay for come there, but for somebody like that I would consider myself or somebody somebody like me. I love taken those guys and I. I mean I’m not going to work extra hard. But I really dug in deep when I had the so this guy. I remember he flew in from Pennsylvania and this particular time. It’s weird, my wife. Who isn’t hunter? Came with me to the Bush for three weeks to experience, what was like for me and I remember she had spotted from the main cow on a mountainside. She’s smart at spotted. This big heard of elk with this big heard bowl and I remember. I knew hunter would be long before him and I just kept joking that that’s going to be his bowl, and his name just slips near Albany. Probably come, but anyways would. He showed up the next day. I said. We’re going for your bowl and. Make a long story short we went across the river, and we got into the Bush and got into the evening, and I started calling, and he was calling back, and it was just like you said like it was so thunderous that it was just rocking. Felt like he was right beside us, but he wasn’t and. He made we call the bowl and get it on video. and. It was just your typical. I call it your TV type because it had the great big splits at the six, and it was just a beautiful beautiful bowl and I remember he didn’t even take the Cape on that one. I was like I, pleaded with him to take it because it was probably one of the nicest picturesque bowls never guided for like. The big four point that went way up in the air and and I said I can’t, but he just couldn’t afford it, so he’s like no I’m just doing warns mouth for it, and that’s all ever wanted, and we kill bet on the first day of his hunt and then I. I tried to convince him to go for either mountain, goat or move after that, but he’s like I can’t afford it, so he literally for for seven-day honey. Late around, but I just remember it because the it. The Bowl was calling so loud that he felt like he was right beside you and I. Mean I have those stories. Probably the best hunting I ever was zarate zone of without a doubt the Elkin. Arizona second-to-none as far as size I. Remember doing a video in Arizona and in just in my view finder ahead five six point we’ll alcs. Ones like in that you finer. That’s how many I had and. The best. Probably I’ll never experience hunting rezone ever again. It was incredible. Man You know. Talking about this stuff is like okay like September can come any. Time now you hear. The funny thing is guided for all these elk all over the world and I enjoy doing it’s. It’s an addiction for me. I’ve never shot an elk. Myself I’ve never been dronne. I’ve never had the opportunity because every for so much part of my life I was guiding elk in the prime time for everybody else and then when I quit. When I quit guiding and I moved to Regina and started working for the police service I just haven’t had the time, but one of these days me and a good friend, of mine, Darren we’re GONNA. Get drawn together and yet you and I’m I’M GONNA I’M GONNA. Get Myself I’m thinking I’m. Eight or nine years of what we call Sukree draw system here so okay. One of these years I’m going to get drawn and then I’m going to get a good one. How picky are you going to be? You know what? Here’s the thing with me I. Don’t put a tape on anything. I’m good I am a good estimator of the size when it comes to help, because I mean obviously I had to measure how many guys over the years so I you know three hundred point bull for me. Would be fine as long as I don’t want. I don’t want a small split on my like a small little split on my six point I i. do want a good bowl, but. I’m not picking it all. Yeah. That’s a beauty. Yeah the splits big, but he’s got big fours. And in really Nice tines.

00:45:04 – 00:50:02

When I gross measured when I shot him, he went. There was like. Three Dan’s twenty something. Yeah and then, but I waited when I get a measured I only had a measure a couple years ago. Like like officially and he shrunk a few inches. He went like three. Three? Three eleven and a half. So you’re you’re pretty bang. That’s my scene. Three Temple you. Guys, just going to say the area that Darren an are putting in, though realistically I should be on the kill a three fifty. I know these guys that. killed a three eighty five last year, and they told me they passed up thirty to fifty bulls before they got that one, so if I if I should be Solanki as drawn in that area. Those guys said that they would help me. Oh, with the area that they went to you know between calling and scouting I’m hope, but if those guys passed up, they were sending me. Pictures of six by six bowls. That I would take in a heartbeat, but they also harvest a lot of bulls themselves whereas I’m you know I? I. I don’t think I can’t remember the last time put a on any my white deal. And I mean I live in southern Sotho Eastern. With, some of the biggest whitetail in North America and I don’t ever I. Mean I can tell that a one fifty one sixty but I don’t I. Don’t put a tape. Bottom is to me. It’s not about that. It’s all about the experience, and and now that my son is in his third year hunting I. I’ve taken a real step backwards in my own personal hunting I’ve sort of. Spent most of my time, and like there, he is buddy you. Do you shoot them and? So, I. Yeah, I, it’s not. It’s really yes, I wanNA I wanNA. I I want a mountain. We’re nanny. Anelle because I know how hard they are and I’m getting old. Oh Yeah. You know that’s that’s the Nice thing is. You know we can. We can hunter host and and do that kind of stuff too right so. Yeah okay, so before we get to calling techniques, let’s talk just a little bit about post Rut. Bulls are tired from meaning and fighting and all that kind of stuff. So my inkling that they would probably go back to feed mineral Licks, water, things like that to kind of replenish. Are they still going to be with the cows because there is? A second rot kind of thing, so we’re we’re. We’re react with the postal. I’m not a big believer in that second right My experience are is just you just have late Cows that don’t come into estrus till late late. And the Bulls. Yeah like the Post. Rut is comparable to pre right where it gets really hard to hunt those bowls. They literally give their all for approximately a month. And now they’re. They’re. They’re spent. They’re injured or lost a lot of weights. They haven’t been sleeping much at all and eating, and so what I find is especially in mountain. Elk is they moved down to the rivers and. They. They like you still you still like you still get the oddball bugling. I just find. They won’t come to a cow call very much anymore there they literally if they make the winter, it’s surprising because a lot of them die in the shortly after the winter. It’s especially in the mount really yeah, and they do get back into the like like I. Think the first week of October is when you’ll see them. Start to get back into their bachelor groups, and and yes, you still hear him whistling, but mainly they moved down to the rivers, and that’s where they’re going to win through as along the rivers soon as they still have some feed there along the river. So. Why why why do you think the mortality rate is so so high like what like just because her so fatigued from from the right thing, and then like predation like wolves, and whatever else or if you see what a bull elk looks like pre pre Rut they’re they’re. They’re big fat, and they have a great big belly, and they’re really healthy looking, and then if you shoot a bowl in either the full right or in post, right they. They almost look sickly like they’re just. They’re literally ribs and bones and. Carry Haggard and the biggest thing I think is, is they? They’re they’re beating the crap out of each other. And and their spearing each other and stuff like that I just can’t imagine if I was to fight every day a for a whole month, and not eat not sleep since the thing if they were eating and sleeping, they probably could recover, but they’re not because you usually get a full moon in September and they they’re. They’re up all night trying to hurt the cows so in.

00:50:03 – 00:55:04

In the fall, they don’t or in the winter. They don’t make it because they fall. They fall prey to the wolves, or they just simply die because they’re sickly. So when you’re guiding year after year in that area, would you find dead heads and all that from the previous year this time? It was almost always find him fifty to one hundred yards away from the river like the almost always died. while. That is something I did I wasn’t aware that’s? That’s an interesting facts if if. For, for example the area that that I know you’re familiar with with knees. Moscow of profit remers if I was late in the year I would literally just. Utilize River. Vote and find were they’re crossing and stuff like that? ’cause you will, you’ll. You’ll run into along rivers lots times. You’ll see them writing on the riverbeds. Right right? Yeah, no, that’s that’s good advice. So let’s get into the calling technique because that’s what I had. Oh before we get into that I did have a point. So I talked to some guys. They don’t like calling it all. They like to just do the silence spot in stock approach or some guys like to get loud. Does that kind of maybe depend on the season because I know in the Rut? Elk are loud. So why wouldn’t you WANNA? Be Loud? Yeah! I I’ve had people come to me in my presentations and see the same thing the it’s because I think they’ve ran into the oddball that comes in silent, which is not uncommon and the they think that. I’m very vocal caller I. GO alone every. Two three minutes and stop and call in listen and an I mark my elk by the response, because the funny thing about with elk is even with these big tubes is, you can project your voice a long ways, but thirty feet might be the difference between them, replying to you or maybe not thirty feet. Let’s say you walk for two three minutes and We’ll We’ll cover a hundred yards. That’ll be the difference between Lady Nassar you the Hundred Years. Prior, now the are, and that’s so I’m a very aggressive caller like and I. also I I rely on them. Gang in their kitchen, and having them replied to me with the when I call the shock call, and once they to be back once they do that, we. I I. Don’t Call Them Anymore I. Call a nice I’d I sneak in I’m not quiet at all I mean I. If you’ve ever heard Elkin the while they’re not. They’re not quiet at all. Especially -I they trudged through the trees, like like nothing and leaves and stuff like that. They’re not quiet at all. Yeah Yeah for sure you’re the ELK experts so hopefully people that are listening her Johnson some notes down. Okay, so that’s great. Now a little bit on animal care so being out in the mountains, especially I know that you and I have had previous conversations where you didn’t have horses at one time and things like if guys are going doing like a backpack trip where they don’t have horses and elk hunting. Kinda the recommendations. You would give them in terms of taking care of that. meet making sure it doesn’t spoil as they’re trying to get it out if you’re in an area that you don’t have horses or Off Road vehicles, you have to have game bags. If you don’t have game bags, your meets going well. It might not spoil, but it’s going to get to blow. Firefly’s on it, and then it will spoil so in like for example, and BC if we saw an l., we always would quartered up, pointed out right there, and then we put everything in feed bags, and if we couldn’t take out that night, because we didn’t have a pack horse, we had a saboteurs or most of my awkward done on foot. I didn’t use a horse. I only used a horse. If I had to go long distances, but for me I prefer. I prefer to hunt on foot so generally. We’ve feel dressing that night and. Try to utilize trees in the sense that we hang the meat in feed bags in the trees, and just hope the bears don’t pull them down overnight, but If you get them in a feedback, right or a cheesecloth or something like that right away, you won’t get any any blowflies and one thing that I. Did learn that I never knew this before is even in the even if you don’t have refrigeration if you get them in a In In a in a in a game bag and you hang them even if it’s warm out like twenty degrees, twenty-five degrees that meet won’t spoil in that bag hanging there. It’ll get like across around that. You’ll have to trim off, but it won’t. It won’t spoil so I always say if you have to. You got to put a corner in a back strapping your backpack and hike it out then you gotta go back.

00:55:04 – 01:00:01

That’s I mean that’s the. Is when you shoot an elk in the in the, you’ll have horses. So. With the with the game bags and stuff like that, so you mentioned boning it out loud. And known some guys that don’t own it out now. Why why why? Why bone it out? Why not bone it just just if I’m backpacking it, I just Li- carrying thirty pounds of bone when it’s just GonNa, get trimmed off at Camp anyways and I I one of the things that I will say about my outfitter. When I was a guy, he made sure that you learned tone. Ah, but when an animal out properly so that you just weren’t wrecking the need, so he taught us how to born, and so it doesn’t take very long and. I mean if unless you’re gonNA, keep those bones for. I think the big thing is nowadays is the Meryl Inside the bones but twenty five years ago when I started guiding. That wasn’t even mentioned, and so it was, it was literally peel the meat off the bone, and put the meat in a raw meat in your in your in your pack, and then when you get back to when you get back to cap, then you could start breaking down into the muscle groups that you’re gonna use that the hunter watts. Right, okay, no, that’s I. Mean it makes sense not to pack more weight than you need to. But I know some guys. You know because of the fact that the bone gives it some stability. It’s easier to tied to your you know. Your frame pack, or whatever saying, but definitely like hanging and cooling is is a must for guiding. I had a green. It was a it was a metal free backpack whenever I had to go on backpacking trips. If it was just a day trip I just had my flexible. Soft key- backpack, but when I was on those kinds of Hans, I always had this big huge almost army backpack, and I could fit quite a bit in there like I think when we’re together. One other time talking I told that story it with that bull that we’ve packed out. It took fifteen hours one way to pack, but there was three of us, and we had to take all portions of meat off the mountain, and that’s the legal. What you have to legally do in BC so we, so we made sure we went on that hunt. We only took a few. GRANOLA bars and sandwiches, and we didn’t take anything else. Because we need to come out with full packs, and so I bone out, I remember I, carried the Hindquarter, a back strap, and the cave, and then I tied the antlers to I pack and I. Know Some guys it’d be like there’s no way he did that I. Did I actually be of that And And then the hunter took off front shoulder, aback back strap, and then whatever like our, he carried our binoculars and stuff like that, and then the wrangler took the other Hindquarter, the other front shoulders and other back strap, and then we took a little bit of what wasn’t shot wasn’t shot up from the from the shot. We took a little bit and we. In it was incredible. It took US fifteen hours one way to pack that bullet. that it sounds like an awfully awesome. That hunt was so great i. mean there’s so much that hunt that was also but on the way in he sean a block bear and we have. We had this skin this loughborough and meet and take it back and then Kinda reset for alcon. Put that on the way out. We’re on this track this marathon trucco. We ran like you. To Bear Tags? We ran into another big bear and he wanted to shoot it and I said no way. There’s no way we could possibly pack that. So we had to pass on them, but on the way he wanted issued another bear. Little. Not Greedy, but like he was there, he was there to fill some towns. That’s for sure. Had? Had He not? Had we not have I haven’t got a clue? What my pack! We’d but I do know that. It was so steep. Who got the where we got the Alcott at that I had the guys. Put my pack on, and I had to lay with the slope, and then they pushed me up, and then once I got up I never sat down for fifteen hours because I know out, never go back, I would never got backup so every time we stop for a break i. just kind of stood there and I had the atvs leaned against a tree. Trees up there, so we couldn’t do that, but it was. It was just up and down up and down on these moving hills, but It. Was it was? It was incredible, but That’s cool. Story I’m so calling techniques, so let’s talk a little bit about the different types of bugles, maybe some different types of cow calling. Depending on the situation that you’re receiving back from the. Or things like that. When I do my presentations, I always say i.

01:00:01 – 01:05:06

kind of always open it with with the sort of the disclaimer that I can’t teach people to call in like a forty five minute to an hour lecture. It’s impassable. What I do say though is that. I can give you the tips that I use. See, I always like I know that I can call elk really well. Calling for people different than calling for for wild elk, so what I always say to people is I’m a better at elk hunting than I. Am at calling elk for me I. I used when I hear an elk bugle. I generally can tell what that state of mind that elk is in obviously I don’t can’t speak their language, but when I hear view I I generally can tell by their bugle if they’re receptive to a call if they’re leaving us or the coming to us if he’s trying to hurt his. Cows up, so the that’s what I tried to project onto my onto the public. When doing my presentations is the I could sit here and blow my blow call and sounds good, but that’s not what they’re there for their learn. Chips so. What I say is. If if you’re a new hunter or Maybe. Somebody that’s that’s wants to be more successful. You have to have to get yourself a cal call because. The bull call first of all the bull. Call that I can do. I can sound yes I could I could sound like those guys at the world elk calling championships, and these it sounds awesome, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to kill an elk or have a bull come in so I. Always tell people it doesn’t matter what you sound like. When it comes to a bull call, you’re only using the bull call for locator, and and I’ve got it written down year. What what I say, Bulls are, and it’s a it’s a simply. It’s a dominance locator. Call meaning if there’s a bull in the area and I’m walking I out a big Bugle. Right away. He’s thinking Oh. There’s another bull close to me. That’s going to steal my steal my cows, so he will shock ’cause. It’s like a Turkey. Turkey hunting and elk hunting are almost one of the same and and Turkeys. Are that way if you if you’re hunting turkeys and you got out of your truck and slam the door and those gablers were still in the trees. They would all gobble. There is called a shock novel well I’ve learned that blowout. Do the exact same thing, so you’re walking along and you bugle shock people. They call back even if he’s not even if He’s He’s not gonNA. Come to you. He’s going to reply to you because you’re so close to him so soon as I get I, get what a shock call! I marked the distance where it is because that’s a lot of it is sometimes you’ll hear him call. You. Don’t know where it’s coming from, so you have to mark the direction that they’re coming from and then I simply I. will cow call and if they replied to me then there isn’t a bowl that is on because if they replied to me, I know that there are receptive goal to the CAL call, so that’s why. You only use so you don’t have to be a great bull collar. You literally don’t have to be. You can just call and then locate those bulls if you want to. Write you WANNA sound good. That’s just for you and I for for people. That’s that’s a really good bugler sounds like it really, doesn’t it? Who cares because at the end of the day the? Person that Masters Cal call and there are so many out there. That are user friendly. That will you, can I don’t have it today? I generally have what I call my jewelry around my neck, and I was trying to find it tonight, but I think it’s in my backpack. Fair Cap I left my backpack at camp, and I have five different calls around my neck as well as I use a mouth. Read that I use in my mouth primarily I. Use the mouth read in my mouth, but I have. A lofty call the only thing. I could see bill could see the little icon on it. Yeah I have a few of those as well so so I use I use the cal primarily, but that doesn’t mean it’s always gonNa work, so I have the Hoochie Mama I have travis the owner of Wapiti River doors. He’s got a soft bite so I have a soft plate. Of. Old School I have the same cow call. It’s a soft bite. I’ve had since one thousand, nine, hundred ninety. Just like the all. This is a Larry Jones from you member Larry D. Jones. That’s his call from back when he was. Doing stuff, but I also have the soft bite that original have and. If one does it work? The other does, or you can use them combined because y what I tell, everybody is if you get a bull, reply to you in one cow. If you can sound like five cows, you just increase your. Chances of harvesting that ball by five times, because that big eight by seven that we got in Wyoming.

01:05:07 – 01:10:04

I used this call. This is a call I use bugle to him and he replied. But he would only asks her to one cow call, and I tried them all, but he wouldn’t reply, and just as one particular call than it had around my neck that he replied to so if you, if you’re an elk hunter, you gotTa Get yourself a call so primarily. What I do is if like this last fall I called in two bulls for people and we. We walk down the trail, and I’ve viewable, and if they if they answer I cow call, and if the answer again I bugle to again because I. Don’t like I’m a big believer that Bull elk are lovers, not fighters. Yes, they fight, but primarily than what they WANNA do is love so if you shock call them and then calm down with a cow call, your chances of seeing them are way higher than if you keep glow in your view. Yes, you’re you. Yes, there’s Times where you can call them with your Bugle, and they will come. Just like your bull did, but that’s. That’s very rare I mean. Most Times, hunters are way more successful is if they just cal call because Kelp owing is calming thing to to boil because I’ve had the fortunate event of one time in a big. High. Tall Grassy Meadow in the guiding at me and the hunter. We crawled on our bellies into the middle of this this metal and the heard was around us, and it was still there was no wind. It was just like the stars aligned, but the cows were chirping and cow, calling to each other, just like every cow was making a sound, and so it was very very calming, sound and They do change their calls when they’re an address you, it’s a more of a sort of urgent call that they do, but and that’s where the Bulls generally are screaming, because they know that the cows in heat, but. But cows are so social, and they’re always near Mir Mira all the time if you can. Replicate that. You’re going to be way more successful, so you located with the ball you put the ball call away, and then you start common with the cow and I call call every thirty seconds. And if they if you’ve got a really hot bull, he’s GonNa. Answer you and you can locate a make a plan like I can pick to the tree. Why where I need to be when I have a hot bowl coming like I’ll say to my hunters. We have to be factory right there and we’ll go there. So do you use a dis your tube when you’re cal calling, or is it just projection with your mom? Well I, if if? That’s the beauty about those soft bites. Most soft bites who fit in the end of the tubes here so if you, if you put your soft mighty in there and like like I’ll just. So. That doesn’t sound like much because of things, but I’m projecting way far away. Way Far way that I could, then if I just did it. In close so. Okay so but the to. Up The sounding of the elk, okay okay I, don’t have them, but those I find those soft bites used with the two are so effective. I don’t know if it. They think it’s a really address cow, but if you put a soft fight like type quite remote down, and you put it in here and you will. Like that with with the cal just drives those bulls bonkers. Okay, so, Whoever’s listening? Soft soft mouth unite with the Bugle, too. I mean obviously as they’re coming closer or you’re getting closer to them. You’ll want to blow him out because that’s the thing with elk very good at directional so so one. They’re really good at the wind, but to their. There’s if you want to know and you’ve call, too. You know that if you call Elk look right at that spot, so that’s where that hoochie. Mama or or a soft bite. Or even using your hands is you can direct. That sounds especially in archer, like I’ve only guided for three archery hundreds over the years, but you have to be so conscious of your wind and your direction that I don’t want them to come to be. I’m steering them to the Archer, so I want to. And projecting it this way when when I ’cause, if I just looked at him and called like that, he knows exactly pinpoint me rain away.

01:10:05 – 01:15:02

So would use a guide when you’re guiding for those archers. Would you kind of back off so that the bull would come the archer to then yeah? So. In the full right. Even though you got an ELP bugling, you have to go after them. They almost will never ever come to you ever until you call Intel, you see. I always say that a bowl will never commit to you until you pressure him enough that he has to see what that is. So. Shocked call to a ball and he hears me. I put my bulk away because I want to call them, but that’s still has been. He’s GonNa. Come unless you’re drawn. Satellite. Bull doesn’t mean you’re going to. You’re going to have him. You’re heard. Leave his her to come to something. He doesn’t even know what it is yet. So what what I do is I always sneak in and I’m cow, calling and trust me when I say you can tell by the sound of his bugle when he’s GonNa, come to you in will always be the same call until like you said your. Yours had this this crazy deep sound. It’s because he’s He’s He’s already sort of what I call. When they snap when they snap, they’re they’re committed to whatever and so the same thing is when you’re cal calling, you’re sneaking in. You’re always cal calling them, you’re you’re not bringing up to you. You’re going to them until they commit to you and you can always tell with commit to you because they basically will face you in the wash and scream at you like and you know that you got that bull coming in so generally you’re always playing. Catch up with L. Meeting. They’re moving their moving their moving and you’re trying to keep him see. I get this an every presentation. I do there you and Mike. You probably heard this, too. Where people say hey mock. All calling one hundred yards away, but I just couldn’t get him get any closer. We hear that all the time. That’s very common and I said well. What did you do after that? He goes well I just kept cal calling and he wouldn’t come. And eventually he just went quiet and I said well. Why didn’t you go after? And they’re like well because I could tell, he was only a hundred yards away. Probably moving away. So he he replied to you member. They have four legs. We only have to, so they can cover twice the distance that it takes for us, so when hear them you have to go after them, so I tell everybody in my presentations, you calling great, but you gotta go get him because he’s never gonna come to you until he sort of the switches flip anyhow to come and see and I I know exactly when the when the switch flip ’cause I can tell they’re calling away. They’re moving around. They’re calling and all sudden. He’s facing you in the Bush some. You know wherever he is any screaming at you, then you can. Plan to hunker down, but you’re to ask your question about with the Archer is always got the archer down wind, and usually to my right, if I can, and then I try to draw that bull for broadside, shot worm, because but I will never send the heart archer out there and tell that bulls committed to us because it’s futile right right? You’re wasting too much time so. The, last thing then. would be decoys have you. Like use them. Don’t use them maybe they help. You know with the visual aspect like what what are you? What’s your opinion on the? Ever used them I know that a few of the hunting shows, or the banquets have been to. They’ve given them out as gifts and stuff, and I’ve certainly looked down, but. I don’t know that. I mean unless you. You set up some place where you know that say a crossing or trail or watering hole where you know that they’re gonNA. Come at, I mean. Dragon one of those things around. SEATTLE, cutting is all about movement. It’s not never ever I. Mean if you’re in a stand. You’re probably unless you’re on. A will use trail, and you’re willing to sit there for hours, and not elk is all about never been static. It’s all about being dynamic and so dragging a decoy along, and then having to set it up I don’t know if it really would make a difference it might help. It might help for an archery hunter. I mean it certainly probably couldn’t hurt. But. I’ve never used it, but remember primarily almost all my alkap in the mountains, and you usually Halla mountain to climb to Kinda spot for and make a plan, and so we always try to ambush our elkin in the sense that we wanna be there by the time they cross so that we can. We can get a look at that ball kind of thing. So I don’t. I don’t feel be if it would be. I guess it’d be worth a try.

01:15:02 – 01:20:09

I mean couldn’t hurt I guess. Maybe in. The agricultural settings where it’s a bit more wide open. Where they can see it because I if you’re also buried in the bush. They’re going to have to be right on top. Right unless you’re printing a laker meadow something here in Saskatoon, a lot of people hunt a tree stands because they only have a parcel land that they can aunt, and so they’ll put up. Trees stand on a on a well used trail I mean. I you know. I I would say that assault, neck or something, or or a wallow a would be probably more beneficial for you, but I mean it certainly couldn’t hurt you know one of the things that I get I get asked about that just came to. My mind is a lot of people. Ask me about cow, hunting and one thing that. I can say. Is, if. You’re gonNA hunt for cows. The beauty thing with causses you, you can actually cal. You can call cows in with the CAL like it’s pretty cool if you can master the cow, bleed. there’s a great video on on Youtube somewhere where we’re made me a believer in the in the cow bleeds was. There is a guy that was cal calling and Bugling, and they’re like Colorado or something like that, and there is a huge heard Alco in the field in those big open plains, and they weren’t reacting at all, but then he went to like you know kind of like job leads and. The heard came and came within range to. Hurt like totally made me a leader, because seemed like that the they made that calf in distress, cal haver they did it and every Elkin at her were within bowl range. At some point, it was and so I mean I wish I could remember what the video is called, but I’m sure if person Google it just it would make a believer out here with. It yeah. Costa calling in and. People are really reserve really hesitant to learn to call with a mouth read especially. And that gets that all that is is a stigma that people have when it comes because they’re embarrassed to learn to call I, think back to two way back in nineteen ninety in that very first couple L. Consoles on. It wasn’t for Lonnie trying to teach me, but I remember I was sitting on the end of that Christie Lake at the end of the dock, and I was using one of these calls, and I was sounding so hord that the Chemo said she’s going to push me in lake. But What I tell people to do is is to just practice with it. Practice with practice with it because. When you first put one of these in the Mo- in your mouth. You’re probably going to have a gag reflex, and and that’s why most people, but but more than the gag reflex people are embarrassed. What other people think and I can go in. I can go into CABELA’s or hunting store in rip open a package that I just bought a blow it in front of everybody, because I’m confident in that, but what I tell people is you just gotTa do it and and and. Learn how to do it by taking putting these in the mouth. When you’re driving your car, you just put in your mouth and you may call any. Your calls with you just make sounds with it and you know. I I there’s so many manufacturers of of calls in the world, and just like cars. Everybody has their favorite. Will what I will say any in the Costa thirty years that I’ve been calling now. I’ve only ever used to brands in my entire life. One is Larry Jones their original green double. There’s another thing I. don’t get into the crazy triple split. Read stuff like that all about just a double or a single read, and so Larry Jones made his green double. It’s called a royal, blow bowl or something like that. And I use that forever until I met Travis and it’s funny, because I’ve tried the all the other ones, and it usually cost me ten bucks of throw in the garbage because it doesn’t make what I consider, because it’s all about pressure on the latex taxes on the read, and and and go eight is in your mouth, and some people obviously can master their different calls, but for me I’m a Pretty Pretty aggressive caller, so most reeds don’t fit well for me and I remember when I first met Travis and his wife and appea- river outfitters. I was at a sports store show and I was walking along. I mean I’m not opposed as trying stuff, not a SNOB that way as should I usually buy usually by one of those with the assumption under is going to toss it in the garbage. and. And, so I stopped at their booth and I grabbed one of their recalls and give it a blow, and it literally blew me away and then I got to talk with Travis.

01:20:10 – 01:25:05

This is this is a Canadian. Product this is made in grande prairie alberta by a guy. That’s a two-time I think world, l., call, and champion and. So he he could tell that you ought to call right away went away. Travis not have a good friendship now, and I will not use anything except for his products, and not because he’s a great guy, but because they make most realistic cow and bull calls. I’ve ever ever used in my entire life so when I do my presentations. I mean you’re welcome To To use whatever call Primoz raw rocky any of those products. There’s just like cars. Everyone their own, but I will tell you I will tell you that. You I will never never stop using his stuff only for that reason it so realistic, the sounds ending the fact that he won the world l.. Calling Championships twice just adds credibility to his business and. They think about Travis to is. If you’re an accomplice caller, build you a call. That’ll fit your style, which is pretty amazing so. I love and you know I’m just he? He’s he’s sort of patent. This system Murray I don’t know if you’ve patented what he uses his dome system, so like before used have used roof your mouth, your tongue pressure while now at this dome, it makes life so much easier for people to use in there so user friendly. Five I recommend everybody tries stuff. Oh, and of course he’s got so many different. Reads, but he’s also got a really awesome. Soft Bite that you can work from. Pactel I care all and it’s. It’s amazing. It’s amazing. Yeah I think I have. One two three. Pretty sure I’ve four. For his for his calls, and that’s where I learned to use an I use them in the truck. You know I I took a whole summer. I took a whole summer just bugling, cal calling, looking up on you and two different of sounds like just whatever but. If you don’t practice, you won’t get it. ’cause I mean for probably the first week or so. I had to even just work through a gag reflex. You know just kind of getting used to that thing on the top of the roof of your mouth and getting that your tongue situated on the latex properly. But once you get it and you get started making the sound the sound on Youtube. You’re like okay well, then you can start manipulating your pitch in. And stuff but. I A. Little Plug for me I. DO A. I do a when I call a not a seminar a workshop on calling so so I spent two hours teaching you how to call the bull call, and then I take you and I and I teach two hours how to call the call and I break it down, and how the octaves work and stuff like that, but we’re. We relate. We’re using calls. Kabila’s like I I’m on the Prost Africa Bellas. And so I was doing this workshop, but one of their stores and they they have. One of the one of the many calls that they sell. They were using it as the demos for the calls and had one guy in particular, that really could not get any sounds from a particular call. It was just a single. It was just a regular double read pretty easy to blow and I just sat meshed sending email to Travis and tell them what’s going on. And he sent him a I. Don’t know if it was a custom, call or something that he sent them and that got killed five by five L. that fault. Yeah he so actually. A venue of him calling and I was like wow I couldn’t believe it went from not even been able to make vocal calls at at workshop, and to to sounding like that I mean just to show is. Good call and and putting in the effort, but anyways that’s I. Do a workshop when I put on and where I actually teach people to call because they can’t in my seminars. It’s all about L. Cutting for that. So. Where can people go to look up when you’re doing your next seminar? Or how can people contact you by primarily? Do most of my stuff through CABELA’s. I’m I’m under contract, so I have to do so many appearances at their at their stores. I mean I’ll just do elk. I’m the only hunting pro staff for catchment so I I do everything from waterfall to whatever, but I mean. They hired me as a milestone, but. I do. I’ll do banquets. I do speaking arrangements and stuff like that, but if they is some if some say club wanted to. Get a hold of me, we could do a workshop for whatever it’s just a nominal fee of of travel and stuff like that, but.

01:25:07 – 01:26:54

Generally if you hit it when I do it a Cabela’s, it’s always free through them the for her then to the participant right because Cabela’s all make sure where the cost of that. Yeah so. Any hunting, related questions or anything like that. Where where can they find your facebook? Own Personal facebook page, which is under my real name. Which is Marcus? Simon’s, but I also have the page. Why avoca Villa’s pro out page. I should say that I. I have a page dedicated to me from so that’s CABELA’s pro staff. Maxine Evans and then. I have a just like what you guys do. I have a video of video chat. podcast called all doors with maxine then I started. Any of those platforms to ground. I think I’m CABELA’s. Pro Staff Mc Simmons on Instagram. I’m with I’m got vortexes, sponsor and and spy points as well and I’m a brown. Bag Brandon Bass for Browning stuff like that so I’ve got a lot of awesome products that that I work with and beyond relationships so. Very also well, I really. Appreciate you for being on our show today I, had the privilege of of coming in on one a years there the other week, which was super superfund, talking screen rare, so really appreciate that and So just want to thank our listeners for listening in here today with Simon’s talking all about L. It was Super Fun and don’t forget to look us up as well pursued the hunt on Youtube, and then instagram and facebook at pursue the hunt, and don’t forget to click subscribe button, and we’ll get you on the next episode.

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